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14 May 2010 @ 07:57 am
SPN Finale - second post  
Okay, after finally gathering my thoughts a bit, I need to get some things out

Let’s start with the ugly, yes? Sooo... something’s just not sitting right with me. :-/ Don’t get me wrong, it was an okay episode bordering maybe even on good… but it was def. not THE best episode ever and if this would have been the SERIES finale I’d be pissed A LOT. No, REALLY. Ending the show with Dean/Lisa (WTF) and Sam being dead would have made the last few years more or less a waste of time, yes? I didn’t know if I would have been able to stomach that. So, if this was really all Kripke’s five year plan? NO, thank you. Making Sam “the bad guy” and then killing him off, while Dean goes to Lisa and cries his eyes out? Yeah, Kripke… that was WEAK.
Basically they pulled a mirror thing… starting out with Sam and his girlfriend living a normal life… and over the five years ending it with Dean in Sam’s shoes.

So… EVEN MORE HURRAYS for a sixth season!! Now Sera… go and fix this, and get Lisa out of the picture, please? Wouldn’t it be perfect to spin the season one picture even farther… Kill Jessica Lisa (and if I ask nicely maybe Ben, too?) and the boys go hunt the thing that killed them. *LOL* Though, don't ask me about originality, okay?

Okay, since I have that out of the way now… a few things:

+ I cried a few times. Esp. the saying goodbye scene killed me. I’m always so emotional with stuff like this. THOUGH I’m sad that we didn’t see the reappearance of the amulet!! Come on, Sammy… Giving Dean his amulet back would have been such an epic scene. *sigh*

+ Sam as Lucifer was pretty effing awesome!!! I LOVED the Samifer vs. Sam scene and the use of the mirrors!! Oh Jared, you did an outstand job there.

+ Carry on my wayward son!! <333 Always one of the greatest moments in a season finale!! Though I’m wondering, with the “actual story” being told, will they use the song next year as well? Hmmm….

+ So… the Impala saved the day… or well, sort of… lol (Uh, to all my Buffy fans on my flist… yellow crayon anyone?) But I guess they needed to trigger Sam’s emotions somehow. I loved the flashback scene there…. and that they ended it with the brotherly hug back from season two *heart*

+ But really, what else does it take besides the actual apocalypse to make them hug? At least in the season finale with Sam pretty much sacrificing himself I would have expected one last goodbye hug. :-/

+ Assbutt!! LOL Yeah, that pretty much stands for itself.

+ Though, gotta admit... this whole "kill Cas... bring him back. Kill Cas, bring him back" is starting to get ridiculous! God doesn't care... and yet he always tends to bring Cas back? SO WHY THE FUCK DONT YOU WORK YOUR MAGIC ON GABRIEL AS WELL??? GAH

+ Chuck… well, so, was he God? Or just a prophet after all and his zapping out kinda thing was just to portray the end of the Sam and Dean story?

+ Speaking of… LOVED the Sam and Dean moment at the beginning of the episode. <33 Thank you Dean!! I wanted to hear that for so long now. *happy sigh*

Yeah… so overall… it was an okay-finale but honestly… I did not have the OMFG feeling at all :-(.

At the end… I do believe it was Sam. Kripke said the mythology will come to an end in the season finale… ergo… Lucifer is dead. trapped.

But I guess now Sam saw that Dean was happy with Lisa (which, honestly, I STILL DON’T GET) and he will just walk away and leave him alone!! WHICH IS WRONG!! BUT I’M SURE IT WILL HAPPEN!!


On the end note: Sam saved the world!! \o/ But man, this whole thing could have had way more potential… *shakes head* I can’t put my finger on it… but yeah.

But they stayed true to one thing (which pretty much was the theme of the last years...) the brothers would do anything to save each other... even if it means to die and be tortured for all eternity. Because that's what the Winchester brotherly love is all about!! <33

/off to finally read my flist and other reactions...
WeHo M.: SPN - Open Roadafrocurl on May 14th, 2010 06:29 am (UTC)
You're the second person to mention yellow crayon, and yeah, that was interesting.

I just got my put together (though not nearly as well thought out as it could be) thoughts.
tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 14th, 2010 07:30 am (UTC)
And I'm def. not going to be the last one. *gg* It was just SO obvious imho.

lexie_sinistra: You'll do anything for your brother?lexie_sinistra on May 14th, 2010 07:17 am (UTC)
I am so not happy about the end. That is if that was what Kripke had planned for the series finale OMFG I would have been PISSED. Sam and Dean forever the end!
The mirror scene was amazing!!! all the flashbacks and the finale fight with Sam seeing the green army man that was just perfect. Maybe Kripke wanted irony. In season 1.1 Sam had normal and now at the end Dean would have normal. Still Brothers Winchester!!! This is going to be a looong ass summer :(
tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 14th, 2010 07:35 am (UTC)
Agree!!! If that was Kripke's vision for the end of the show, I would have been angry!!! I'd be okay with both brothers dying... or both brothers being alive. But killing one and saving the other? No. The boys sacrificed themselves for each other so often over the past few years... if this would have been the end, they both should live or die.

I hate the hiatus already!
lexie_sinistralexie_sinistra on May 14th, 2010 07:46 am (UTC)
Exactly!!! They have done so much for each other and this is how you possibly wanted to end the show. With one brother being thrown in the pit and left behind? NO WAY!!! Even if Dean did promise you know there is no way he would just let this go, he would get Sam back. Thank God for season 6!!!
tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 14th, 2010 08:04 am (UTC)
Honestly, I'm not so sure about that. Dean tends to keep the promises he makes towards Sam. So I think he also would have kept this one. It was sort of Sam's dying wish.
Marionfaith_mars on May 14th, 2010 08:08 am (UTC)
Ich weiß nicht, wieso jeder davon ausgeht, dass DAS das Serienfinale gewesen wäre. Die werden das doch bitte umgeschrieben haben... Ich kann mir echt vorstellen, das Eric das so gemacht hätte. Wurde das gesagt irgendwo, irgendwann? BS.

Und, hau mich jetzt bitte nicht, aber ich bin nicht ganz überzeugt, dass das Sam war am Schluss. Ich glaub Luzi hat das letzte Wort noch nich tgesprochen. Wozu hätten sie denn dann Jesse als Charakter eingeführt, wenn sie ihn jetzt nicht benützen? Das macht doch keinen Sinn. Hmm. OH Mann, September ...

tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 14th, 2010 08:17 am (UTC)
Also der letzte Stand den ich gelesen hab war, dass Kripke seinen fünf Jahres Plan zu Ende bringen wird. Und ich denke, dass der Großteil der Episode seine Vision war die Serie enden zu lassen. Sie haben bestimmt kleine Veränderungen vorgenommen... z.b. Bobby und Cas zurückholen... und dann natürlich die Szene mit Sam ganz zum Schluss. Aber Kripke hat immer betont, dass für Ihn DEAN der Held der Geschichte ist. Von daher zweifle ich nicht dran, dass das ganze im großen und ganzen sein Endgame war. Und wie gesagt, es wäre sehr symbolisch gewesen... Dean ist zum Schluss mehr oder weniger Sam, versucht sich am normalen Leben, während sich sein Bruder für ihn "geopfert" hat obwohl all die Jahre zuvor Dean der Beschützer war.

Und wie gesagt, Kripke, Sera und Co haben mehrmals betont, dass diese ganze Storyarc zu Ende gebracht wird. Und wenn sie Lucifer doch noch beibehalten wärs doch nicht so, oder? Ich mein, sie haben ja Luci jetzt kaum in Staffel 5 bewältigen können, Staffel 6 wär ja dann lächerlich wenn sie wieder Lucifer ins Spiel bringen. Ich weiß nicht... ich kanns mir nicht vorstellen.

Mich zipft der Hiatus jetzt schon an, das sag ich dir.
Marionfaith_mars on May 14th, 2010 08:40 am (UTC)
Sorry, wenn ich das jetzt so sag, aber wenn das stimmt, dann macht eine 6. Season noch viel weniger Sinn als vorher. :/ Oh joy.
tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 14th, 2010 11:53 am (UTC)
Also falls uns Kripke nicht komplett angelogen hat, stimmt das ganz sicher. Sie wollen für S6 was neues angehen.

Und ich bin ehrlichgesagt noch froher dass es eine neuen season gibt denn dieses Ende jetzt hätten sie sich in den Hintern schieben können.
Susi: Dean cryingspikessire on June 25th, 2010 01:20 pm (UTC)
Was ist eigentlich aus dem Erzengel Michael geworden, der mit Luzifer in den "Käfig" gesperrt wurde? Der Kampf wird doch wohl unter Auschluss der Öffentlichkeitn stattgefunden habe und wie es scheint hat Luzi gewonnen und ist somit wieder frei. Und außerdem, seit wann kann Sam Straßenlaternen nur durch seine Gegenwart abschalten? Nö, ich glaube nicht, dass wir Luzi schon los sind...
Lillilisullivan on May 14th, 2010 10:15 am (UTC)
It wasn't the best episode, but it was kinda good.
The only thing i didn't like is killing Cas and Bobby and bringing them back to life 5 min later. It kinda lessen the purpose but oh well.
And i might be the only one but i liked the ending and i don't want them to kill Lisa. I'm sick of them killing any interesting female character on that show.
I don't see this as a series finale, and i don't think Kripke was planning to make it look like one. Most of the story is his 5 year plan, but i'm pretty sure he changed the end because of next year. If it was the last season it would have ended differently, but that's just how i see it.
tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 14th, 2010 12:04 pm (UTC)
Yeah, this Cas and Bobby thing bothered me as well. You can't really be shocked about a such a death b/c you just know "oh wait... they will bring them back" Though I didn't figure that it would be SO fast.

See and that's my problem... I don't see Lisa as an interesting character :-/ This thing was shoved at us b/c the writers desperately needed Dean to connect with someone. And since this was the only woman who we saw/heard of in the past, they tried to create this "epic" love thing between them. I just don't get it.

Honestly I'm not so convinced that it would have ended much differently. Kripke was very clear with always emphasizing on "I wanna bring my 5-year-plan to an end" So I think he just made minor changes. Like bringing Sam back in the very last second... as well as bringing Cas and Bobby back to life. But ever since he said that he sees Dean as the hero of this story, I somehow think this was the ending he had planned all along. But I hope there will be an interview with him where he talks about it. I'd really like to know for sure.
Lillilisullivan on May 14th, 2010 12:35 pm (UTC)
Didn't he say that he wasn't going to give interviews about the finale? Or was it someone else?

I agree with you that they didn't develop Lisa story that much. But they couldn't really do it, she is, after all a minor character. They can't really steal time from Sam, Dean... and now Castiel.
Maybe they didn't show us much, but i like her nonetheless. And i don't see why Dean don't deserve a shot at having a family again, since he lost all the people he cared about the most.

Even if Kripke meant this episode as a series finale, i think it could work. Ok Dean is alive and Sam is not. And i'm glad Dean is alive, i'm not going to deny it.
Sam is as much a hero as Dean, even more... He sacrificed himself for the good of humanity.
Sam always saw the big picture in a way, whereas Dean tried to make his family come first.
This is a bittersweet ending but not so terrible. I guess i could live with it.
tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 14th, 2010 08:11 pm (UTC)
I think it was Sera who pointed it out a few times. (maybe even at the 100th episode party. I think there was a interview somewhere) And there was also a report about Kripke a few months/weeks back where he stated it. Sadly I can't pinpoint it, but it was said by the both of them. They wanted to wrap this whole thing up so they could start something new in season six.

And I have no doubt, Dean deserves a shot at a normal family life. Sadly I just don't see that he is really the type for it. I can't really imagine him in that role. But who knows, maybe they will prove me differently in season six.

Though, ulimatilve I want both boys be alive and happy... and for that to happen they are together, crusing around in the States and hunt evil things. So yeah, that would be the ending I could live with. (or even an ending like on "Angel"... if you've seen that one?) But sadly I couldn't live with the ending we got here *sigh*
I guess everyone sees it differently :-) And that is good, too.
tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 16th, 2010 11:40 am (UTC)
I found one of the many interviews they gave saying they would wrap this storyline up entirely: :)


It's under the question: "If there’s a sixth season, how do you top the apocalypse?"
Jennifer: SPN: Jared & Jensen sillydaydreamer1984 on May 14th, 2010 12:34 pm (UTC)
THe Lisa thing doesn't bother me. It's just im tired of the boys being pulled apart all the time, it's getting old. I hope season 6 is more like season one and it has a happy ending with both boys alive and togehter and with Bobby and Castiel or whatever. I don't want some tragic ending iwth this show
tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 17th, 2010 10:41 pm (UTC)
You know I could live with both boys dying and then both go to heaven or something. As long as they are together, it doesn't matter where they are... know what I mean? So I guess it would be a tragic ending and yet somehow a happy ending for the boys afterall. Cause I'm just sure the only time they are really happy is when they are together.
michelle: Sam and Dean : Everyday normal lifecertainthings on May 14th, 2010 05:02 pm (UTC)

Lisa and Ben are pinned to the ceiling on fire.
A demon is standing there bored.
Dean rushes in all WTF.
Demon: You are a Winchester, right?
Dean: Yeah?
Demon: You scared me for a moment, thought I had the wrong place.
Dean: I scared you? I'm going to kill you. That's my girl and her boy up there.
Demon: Well, yeah. You're a Winchester, you should know by now you can't have nice things.
Dean: Well, crap.
Demon: Sucks, right?

And so on. Mmhmm.

Show completely and totally stole Yellow Crayon moment. Like full on stole.
tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 17th, 2010 10:46 pm (UTC)
Uhhh uhhh... I wanna see that, please. No wait... wouldn't it even be better to see it in musical form?! Where can I sign the petition for THAT?

IKR? Kripke, the Whedon worshiper in the closet.... (or something...)
crazylilly: SPN - Brotherscrazylilly on May 14th, 2010 09:27 pm (UTC)
Ich habe gerade die letzten drei Folgen am Stück geguckt. Und ich bin mir auch gerade nicht so ganz sicher:
- Wer ist Chuck? Wahrscheinlich tatsächlich "nur" der Prophet, der seinen Dienst erfüllt hat.
- Die Frage für mich ist viel mehr - wer ist der/die/das Impala? Chuck hat das Auto so wichtig gemacht. Ich denke, da steckt noch mehr drin. Mal sehen.
- Ob das das eigentliche Finale hätte sein sollen? Ich denke nicht. Ich könnte mir vorstellen, dass im Original Sam "ja" gesagt hätte, der Plan mit den Ringen gescheitert wäre (so wie ja jetzt auch) und daraufhin Dean "ja" gesagt hätte und dann statt Adam auf dem Friedhof gestanden hätte. Und in ihrem "Wahn" die Welt zu opfern hätten sie sich beide gemeinsam geopfert - und zwar beide so wie jetzt Sam in vollem Wissen und im Bewußtsein von Dean und Sam (ich hoffe, Du hast verstanden, was ich sagen wollte). - Das wäre ein gutes Serienende gewesen. Adam und Lisa sind Figuren, die nur wegen der 6. Staffel überhaupt noch mal aufgetaucht sind. Sie brauchten einen Michael und sie brauchten irgendwas bzw. -wen zu dem Deam gehen konnte.
Macht das Sinn so?

Was das Ende angeht - gute Frage, wer das war. Ich denke, dass wird die eigentlich spannende Frage für die nächste Staffel.
tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 17th, 2010 10:59 pm (UTC)
Heh. Ja ich verstehe was du meinst. :) Aber ich bin mir da ehrlichgesagt nicht so sicher ob wirklich beide Jungs am Ende tot gewesen wären. Viell. hätten wir wirklich den Michael!Dean vs. Lucifer!Sam bekommen (obwohl das dann halt schon seeehr voraussehbar gewesen wäre). Aber ich glaube, so wie es ja vor dem GO für die 6. Staffel angedeutet wurde, hätte Michael Dean das Leben geschenkt. Also wenn er dann wirklich auch ins Loch gefallen wäre, hätte Michael ihn vorher rausgeholt und Dean sein "normales Leben" als Belohnung gegeben.
Ich fänd es schon sehr symbolisch wenn sie schlussendlich aus Dean den "Normalo" machen. Anfangs haben wir Sam der nach einer Familie und einem normalen Leben strebt. Und 5 Jahre später haben wir plötzlich Sam als den Retter der Welt und den ultimativen Hunter während Dean nun Sam's "Traum" lebt. Irgendwie wäre das schon eine Ironie gewesen und hätte zu einem "edgy" Serienfinale beigetragen.

Ich kann mir nicht vorstellen dass da noch mehr dahintersteckt. Für mich sollt es einfach nur darstellen, dass die kleinsten Dinge mit denen man am wenigstens rechnet eine große Wirkung haben können. Und symbolisch sollte es mal wieder das Winchesterleben darstellen und die ganzen Familiegeschichte die damit verknüpft ist. Family ist halt doch nach wie vor das Wichtigste.

Wegen Chuck bin ich auch unentschlossen, tendier aber auch mehr zum "Propheten". Wenn das schon die ganze Zeit Gott hätte sein sollen wären da schon einige Sachen in früheren Episoden schiefgelaufen. Hmmm ja.

Ist schon September??
(Deleted comment)
tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 17th, 2010 11:07 pm (UTC)
I'm really glad that Jared got to do such a Me vs. Me scene as well. Don't get me wrong, I liked Jensen doing it in "Dream a little.." and "The End" but I was loooooonging for such a Sam scene as well. And now we even got it with two entirely different characters. :-D Even more than I've been asking for. <33

And HEY not everything got tied up in the end. I'm still waiting to hear why Dean's eyes were bleeding baaaaack in Bloody Mary... DAMNIT! ROOOFL. Yeah, yeah, I know, details LOL I'm just reeeeeaaaally curious if it was really referring to the comics or if there was something different behind it.

About Lisa and being happy.
Yeah, with Sam's death and Dean having to process everything that had happened, it was clear that he wouldn't be a ball of sunshine right away. But give him a few weeks and he will get better.... def. not happy... but content.
deanvica23deanvica23 on May 15th, 2010 08:10 pm (UTC)
yes im surprise for the end dean with lisa. Bon it wanted his family. For the season 6 dean have right a happiness it can't be alone all his live that it remain with lisa when it return at the home but it is with his sammy on the roads.
the first episode season 6 that sammy come to see lisa and dean as dean in the pilot. maybe a episode how dean live with lisa( a little of sex dean nakes i can say babe????????????) please please

im very sad that sammy and dean aren't together at the end of the finale. But after all their suffers maybe that it's the only way for the moment. And maybe sammy need to be alone too, think at his life. I think that it will understand that it need his dean.
yeah your sammy saved the world. disappointed for dean him the real vessel of michael. Not happy on the stuff with adam .

tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 17th, 2010 11:10 pm (UTC)
Right now I'm betting my money on them doing a time jump or something. Everything else would not feel realistic. We'll probably see some Dean/Lisa moments before Dean finds out that Sam is alive... or something. I dunno. But I hope they will bring the brothers back together VERY SOON! I just hate seeing them being apart *SIGH*

And awww you don't like Adam? I LOVED that Dean wasn't Michael. It would have been too predictable. Besides, he promised Sam not to say yes!! So he kept that promise :)
deanvica23deanvica23 on May 18th, 2010 08:20 am (UTC)
there is a new interview of jensen. it said spoiler season 6. me too i want the boys together.
i don't like just a third brother for me it's that dean and sammy. but i like jake. love.
Demon Dean: arcticcrapholedemondean on May 16th, 2010 12:00 am (UTC)
I am on a bitch mode about this EP cause god-damn -- the logic just isn't there for me. After Sam jumped into the cage I was actually waiting for Dean to beg him to take him with him into it. Or just jump himself. Or kill himself after realizing Sammy was gone. Or really going on a mission to hunt down God. Or what ever. Not just the crappy ending we got. :/
tinkabell007tinkabell007 on May 17th, 2010 11:13 pm (UTC)
Uh well... see it that way: He kept his promise to Sam.
Sam telling him to live a normal-apple-pie-life was sort of his dying wish. So Dean wants to honor it and respect it. It basically is the last gift he gives to Sam.

(I still don't like the Lisa and Ben idea btw lol But I just want to understand Dean's actions.)